Question / Help Stutter in stream/preview. No rendering/encoding lag.

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Erick Smith

Member
I could try using a HDTV versus a computer monitor. That's one thing nobody has discussed. My output is over DisplayPort too. Maybe I will switch to HDMI and try again. Maybe there are quality of life issues with DisplayPort when capturing video for recording.
 
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fatmatrow

Member
Erick Smith said:
I could try using a HDTV versus a computer monitor. That's one thing nobody has discussed. My output is over DisplayPort too. Maybe I will switch to HDMI and try again. Maybe there are quality of life issues with DisplayPort when capturing video for recording.
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Nobody has really discussed it because it has no bearing on it unless its some niche weird monitor that doesn't accept 60fps, I've tried it with monitors, TVs, HDMI, dp, the whole deal.
 
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Erick Smith

Member
fatmatrow said:
Nobody has really discussed it because it has no bearing on it unless its some niche weird monitor that doesn't accept 60fps, I've tried it with monitors, TVs, HDMI, dp, the whole deal.
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Well, this all started with UWP and Windows 8. I hear you, but this operating system is autonomous with the ability to downclock or save power. Frame buffer fixes have already been applied. After about 10 minutes, the OS will start to put OBS in a different state (C-State), because it's decoding or whatever it's classified to do by the scheduler. Well, modern monitors also have power saving voltage regulators as well. I'm even thinking about buying another high refresh rate monitor because at 240hz, I don't experience these bottlenecks when recording or gaming.

I lost one of the fixes that was causing Windows 10 make OBS autonomously change it's application state and it was in the default high performance power plan that caused it, so I will not say that nothing has a bearing on anything or I assume something. It's going to get worse with Windows 11 and Virtualized Based Security, because it's on by default, as another example.
 
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hildegain

New Member
If this all started with UWP and Win8. Then why does it also affect Linux in the exact same fashion? (Can't speak for Macs. Don't have those to test) If I run my capture card using ReCentral. No stutter. No drops. Nothing. OBS stutters and jitters left and right. In fact, you say it will be worse in Win11 but it runs pretty much exactly the same in Win11 as it does in each other version of Windows. In fact it runs exactly the same on Fedora, Arch Linux, Debian, and Ubuntu. Tested all with the same problem visible. Seems to me to be an issue with the source and render pipelines not actually matching up even if they should in settings. (observed a fun effect in testUFO where the scrolling lines seemed to be jumping back and forward between a past and future state... so not sure what that's about)

Tested monitor mirroring and remote display and the only problems with stuttering seem to show up in OBS preview and in a lot of other apps that seem to use obs code. (Also you'll note that it still happens when you disable c-states entirely. So that can't be blamed)

Maybe the DXGI thing will help... I dunno. It sounds like the problem is fundamentally simple but simple problems don't always require simple solutions. Also yeah. I've tried this out with two monitors. Tried DP, HDMI, DVI, and even VGA. I don't think the cables or the monitors are really at fault here. :S
 
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fatmatrow

Member
hildegain said:
If this all started with UWP and Win8. Then why does it also affect Linux in the exact same fashion? (Can't speak for Macs. Don't have those to test) If I run my capture card using ReCentral. No stutter. No drops. Nothing. OBS stutters and jitters left and right. In fact, you say it will be worse in Win11 but it runs pretty much exactly the same in Win11 as it does in each other version of Windows. In fact it runs exactly the same on Fedora, Arch Linux, Debian, and Ubuntu. Tested all with the same problem visible. Seems to me to be an issue with the source and render pipelines not actually matching up even if they should in settings. (observed a fun effect in testUFO where the scrolling lines seemed to be jumping back and forward between a past and future state... so not sure what that's about)

Tested monitor mirroring and remote display and the only problems with stuttering seem to show up in OBS preview and in a lot of other apps that seem to use obs code. (Also you'll note that it still happens when you disable c-states entirely. So that can't be blamed)

Maybe the DXGI thing will help... I dunno. It sounds like the problem is fundamentally simple but simple problems don't always require simple solutions. Also yeah. I've tried this out with two monitors. Tried DP, HDMI, DVI, and even VGA. I don't think the cables or the monitors are really at fault here. :S
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essentially what seems to be happening is something related to frame ordering. Adding the buffer allows it to keep the frames in the correct order. I have the test version that only has the buffer on a special display capture option, and it works. The preview still stutters, but the output to the stream stays smooth. I know that work is currently being done to further test it and it should be worked in to the other capture options eventually. It will take the person(s) implementing it some time to do everything and iron out all the bugs so don't expect is super soon. You can get a copy of the test version Here
 
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TKTV

New Member
So I have the same issues as above and have successfully removed stutters while using obs and elgato hd60 pro by adding buffering to the capture card source. Still haven’t figured out how to remove stutter from game captures/display capture.

The Windows defender bit doesn’t surprise me as I’ve suspected it may be the culprit.
 
Kraezy

Kraezy

Member
fatmatrow said:
essentially what seems to be happening is something related to frame ordering. Adding the buffer allows it to keep the frames in the correct order. I have the test version that only has the buffer on a special display capture option, and it works. The preview still stutters, but the output to the stream stays smooth. I know that work is currently being done to further test it and it should be worked in to the other capture options eventually. It will take the person(s) implementing it some time to do everything and iron out all the bugs so don't expect is super soon. You can get a copy of the test version Here
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Either I'm being completely stupid but can't see anywhere to pull a test copy.
 
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or10nsharkfin

New Member
I am also running into this issue. I have gone through three different system configurations and have run into this issue every time.

First setup was an i7-4790k with 16GB of RAM and a GTX 1070.
Second setup was a 3900X with 16GB of RAM and an RTX 2070 Super.
Third and current setup is a 3900X with 32GB of RAM and an RTX 3070.

I’ve noticed that the issue only really happens when the scene preview is active. Disabling the preview fixed the dropped frames. So what I’m assuming is that the software is having issues rendering an active scene when a game is running at the same time. While this was a temporary fix for me, I would like to see if there actually is something that is more permanent because I would like to keep monitoring my stream without having to use my phone or tablet and take up desk space.
 
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fatmatrow

Member
or10nsharkfin said:
I am also running into this issue. I have gone through three different system configurations and have run into this issue every time.

First setup was an i7-4790k with 16GB of RAM and a GTX 1070.
Second setup was a 3900X with 16GB of RAM and an RTX 2070 Super.
Third and current setup is a 3900X with 32GB of RAM and an RTX 3070.

I’ve noticed that the issue only really happens when the scene preview is active. Disabling the preview fixed the dropped frames. So what I’m assuming is that the software is having issues rendering an active scene when a game is running at the same time. While this was a temporary fix for me, I would like to see if there actually is something that is more permanent because I would like to keep monitoring my stream without having to use my phone or tablet and take up desk space.
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This is coming but its going to take some time for them to write all the code for it, thoroughly test it, make sure it doesn't mess with other stuff ETC. Be glad we're even at this point now, because it is a niche problem with no known cause which makes it extremely difficult to both fix and just plain figure out whats happening, especially when the people fixing it don't have direct hands on access to the machines with the issue.
 
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or10nsharkfin

New Member
I've determined that the majority of my issue is caused by G-Sync being active while streaming, almost like OBS doesn't know what to do with it while rendering a stream. I ran a stream for an hour and a half with G-Sync turned off and my preview active and barely had any issues--until launching Battlefield 4, which for some reason froze up my camera capture.
 
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fatmatrow

Member
or10nsharkfin said:
I've determined that the majority of my issue is caused by G-Sync being active while streaming, almost like OBS doesn't know what to do with it while rendering a stream. I ran a stream for an hour and a half with G-Sync turned off and my preview active and barely had any issues--until launching Battlefield 4, which for some reason froze up my camera capture.
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That's a separate issue and not so much an issue, more like the nature of not running a locked framerate that's either equal to or a multiple of the framerate you have obs set to
 
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TKTV

New Member
fatmatrow said:
essentially what seems to be happening is something related to frame ordering. Adding the buffer allows it to keep the frames in the correct order. I have the test version that only has the buffer on a special display capture option, and it works. The preview still stutters, but the output to the stream stays smooth. I know that work is currently being done to further test it and it should be worked in to the other capture options eventually. It will take the person(s) implementing it some time to do everything and iron out all the bugs so don't expect is super soon. You can get a copy of the test version Here
Click to expand...

"I have the test version that only has the buffer on a special display capture option, and it works." Are you referring to the display capture source? I tried the one labelled DXGI Desktop Duplication and still had stutter after about 30 min of stream with no frame drops.
 
Kraezy

Kraezy

Member
fatmatrow said:
The only viable fix is the dxgi frame buffer that is currently being tested and will hopefully be implemented fully into obs. I've been using it lately with great results
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Glad to hear you're getting some good results for your setup.

Out of curiosity, how have you setup your Vertical sync on each pc? (Fast on both or off or On etc?)
 
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fatmatrow

Member
Kraezy said:
Glad to hear you're getting some good results for you setup.

Out of curiosity, how have you setup your Vertical sync on each pc? (Fast on both or off or On etc?)
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I have it set to the option that goes by program, I use vsync on games and play at 60fps. If you're not playing at 60 or a multiple of 60, you will get stutter on the stream due to frame pacing
 
Kraezy

Kraezy

Member
Similar to how I have it running in terms of vsync.
Yeah all my monitors are set to a div of 60 already and obviously tested everything running at a flat 60hz too.

Thought I fixed it myself a few weeks back by installing AVG and using Spybot Anti beacon / Win10APrivacy but it reared it's head again not long after.

I did try the test build, no luck there.

Purchased a 4k60pro mk2 to see if it was purely a NDI issue my end, still no luck.
Out of curiosity I installed a win 8.1 build on my streaming pc and loaded that up, tested out NDI and it was 99% smooth, there was a slight blip here and there but a ton better than results I'm getting with 2 x Win 10 setup. But 4k60pro doesn't work on Win 8.1 so I'm either left with an expensive pci-e brick sitting on my desk or I roll back to Win 8.1 on my streaming pc to get a somewhat decent looking output.

I agree it's something to do with frame pacing/timing or something along those lines.

This is exactly what I'm seeing in recordings streams.
www.testufo.com/stutter#demo=slowdowns&foreground=ffffff&background=000000&pps=720

like something is halving the refresh rate in OBS intermittantly, it'll run perfectly for around 20-30 secs, then 5 secs of slowdown then back to normal. It's not exactly timed, sometimes it can go 2 mins + without any slowdown, or it can be instant. Hard to pin point it.
 
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TKTV

New Member
Using display capture with DXGI Desktop Duplication selected helped minimalize my video stutter immensely, just wish there were a similar option for game capture as I'd like to be able to hit my windows key without it showing on stream.

Still progress though.
 
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TKTV

New Member
Kraezy said:
Similar to how I have it running in terms of vsync.
Yeah all my monitors are set to a div of 60 already and obviously tested everything running at a flat 60hz too.

Thought I fixed it myself a few weeks back by installing AVG and using Spybot Anti beacon / Win10APrivacy but it reared it's head again not long after.

I did try the test build, no luck there.

Purchased a 4k60pro mk2 to see if it was purely a NDI issue my end, still no luck.
Out of curiosity I installed a win 8.1 build on my streaming pc and loaded that up, tested out NDI and it was 99% smooth, there was a slight blip here and there but a ton better than results I'm getting with 2 x Win 10 setup. But 4k60pro doesn't work on Win 8.1 so I'm either left with an expensive pci-e brick sitting on my desk or I roll back to Win 8.1 on my streaming pc to get a somewhat decent looking output.

I agree it's something to do with frame pacing/timing or something along those lines.

This is exactly what I'm seeing in recordings streams.
www.testufo.com/stutter#demo=slowdowns&foreground=ffffff&background=000000&pps=720

like something is halving the refresh rate in OBS intermittantly, it'll run perfectly for around 20-30 secs, then 5 secs of slowdown then back to normal. It's not exactly timed, sometimes it can go 2 mins + without any slowdown, or it can be instant. Hard to pin point it.
Click to expand...


I am seeing something very similar as what you posted in that link
 
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